Sen. Tom Coburn shares that he thinks civil disobedience will happen after President Obama's expected order on immigration. Kelly Jordan, Sean Dougherty
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00:02 Susan Page Washington bureau chief of USA today and this
00:05 is capital download. Were on Capitol Hill and the offices of
00:09 senator Tom Coburn Republican of Oklahoma. Thanks much for being with
00:13 it to be with you. President Obama on Friday is expected
00:17 to. Announced the executive order on immigration. What will the Republican
00:22 reaction be here. Well I don't think it's so much of
00:25 Republican reaction here's the country's gonna go nuts. Because they're gonna
00:29 see it as they move outside. Of the authority of the
00:33 president. And it's going to be a very dangerous situation. You're
00:38 gonna see. Hopefully not but you could see instances of anarchy.
00:45 It would keep me won't you could see violence you know
00:49 and this is a big step. Two to not work with
00:53 congress now he's got a new congress to go completely around.
00:57 And to do things that it it lot of legal debate
01:01 on both sides Willard money as a parent do that. But
01:05 what what what our country needs now is to be pulled
01:08 together not provided further. And I think it's I think it's
01:12 a terrible political mistake. To divide us now. Further I agree
01:18 we need to solve the immigration problem. But I think the
01:21 way you do that is force a consensus. Not just my
01:24 way or the highway. And so the president has said I've
01:27 given enough time I'm not late anymore I'm gonna do this
01:30 he's gonna get challenged in court. He's probably gonna lose in
01:32 court but it's gonna be a couple of years down the
01:34 road. But what he's gonna do is do great harm visibility
01:38 Workman has been cut. And Andy's also gonna divide the American
01:42 people. If you if you look at the polling of the
01:45 American people. They they want us to solve this problem but
01:49 they don't want it solved by an executive order and and
01:53 we have enough trouble right now. In our country. In the
01:59 process of congress not having work and and Howard decide we're
02:02 gonna have an autocratic leader. That's gonna disregard what constitution says
02:07 and make law ending. And so we instead of the rule
02:10 of law. Handling in our country today now we're start I
02:14 have the rule of rumors and that's it total antithesis of
02:17 what this country was founded. And so I think it's a
02:19 very dangerous move for us both in terms of civil that
02:24 was disobedience. I think he's a very dangerous move in terms
02:27 of confidence for the future our country and be able to
02:30 accomplish other things it will need to be accomplished over the
02:32 next two years. And so my advice that they don't ask
02:36 him anymore my advice would be don't do this hit given
02:40 congress a chance work. And when you talk about Civil Disobedience
02:44 or violence I don't understand what exactly you talk about the
02:48 fear might happen as a result look here's here's how people
02:50 think. Willis laud them applaud the president. And it's not affirmatively.
02:58 Acted on for us as a group like your scene and
03:02 Ferguson Missouri. Then why should it apply to me you came
03:06 into the senate. In the class with Barack Obama coming in
03:10 from Illinois and I wish you two were actually became pretty
03:13 good friends I've I've really liked it. And he's a very
03:17 interesting. Individual. I thought it was neat and I think Michelle
03:22 also neat lady. But we got to know each other during
03:25 orientation. We weren't close close friends but we were acquaintances which
03:30 is it. Pretty pretty good for Democrat Republican think he's doing.
03:37 On don't think well right now. As far as the country
03:42 is concerned I don't think he's doing well. Especially international. In
03:47 terms of recognition. I think he did well I think I
03:53 think he has great opportunity. If he were truly recount. To
03:59 compromise and reconcile that problems of this country. And pull people
04:05 together. We accomplished we can week we can fix the immigration.
04:10 We can certainly reestablish. Some of our foreign policy plans. We
04:16 can't start working on the real structural problems associated with the
04:20 deficit because it really requires divided government to do that. Think
04:24 he can be heroes. And he can do that but and
04:28 he's also an ideologue. And ideologues have a difficult time compromised.
04:34 He has the skills to pull us together. And the question
04:38 is will. And that if I if I already in in
04:42 his office let's say if you wanna we have a successful
04:44 second term dig down swallow your pride. Get what you can
04:49 get compromise on everything he can't for the best interest of
04:52 the country. Brings back again. I mean we're we're to I
04:58 can see it we're disintegrating as a fabric as an option
05:02 in front of my office. From from both generational too racial.
05:07 To. The intellectual to financial. And it's coming apart. And we
05:13 need leaders opposed to get. And politics makes it worse. Because
05:18 we exams and we exaggerate the differences. You've been battling cancer
05:24 married and and what do you plan to do went to
05:28 beat this. A plan to hopefully be more effective than I've
05:32 been in the sent. You know that's one of the reasons
05:34 I'm only. I think this place needs a lot of pressure
05:40 put on. To do the right thing I wanna article five
05:44 convention. To force. A balanced budget. To to you know what
05:50 happens right now Susan is people won't make hard choices. Because
05:55 they're not ninety. And that if we have balance budget amendment
06:00 a politician can go home and say. Yes I chose to
06:04 this is what I chose to cut because we have a
06:06 balanced budget amendment constitution says we have to live with it
06:09 means. And I chose to cut this now they won't cut
06:12 anything. Because they don't have to and so we need that
06:16 we need term ones. We need we need more people who
06:19 are not career politicians. In the business of representing us. And
06:24 that mean for politicians are bad they're honorable people but basically
06:28 that they have very limited exposure to the rest of the
06:31 aspects of life. And we need what our founders rippling in
06:34 winning people with really produced from appears server period time go
06:37 by commonly under the laws they helped create. Senator Tom Coburn
06:42 thanks so much for joining us capitol them.
Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla.(Photo: Sean Dougherty, USA TODAY)
WASHINGTON — Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn warns there could be not only a political firestorm but acts of civil disobedience and even violence in reaction to President Obama's executive order on immigration Thursday.
"The country's going to go nuts, because they're going to see it as a move outside the authority of the president, and it's going to be a very serious situation," Coburn said on Capital Download. "You're going to see — hopefully not — but you could see instances of anarchy. ... You could see violence."
Coburn, 66, is a conservative Republican but one who has a personal relationship with Obama. They entered the Senate in the same class, elected in 2004, and the new senators from opposite ends of the political spectrum and their spouses immediately hit it off at an orientation dinner. Last year, the president wrote a tribute in Time magazine to Coburn as "someone who speaks his mind (and) sticks to his principles."
"I really like the guy," Coburn, 66, told USA TODAY's weekly video newsmaker series Wednesday. "I thought he's neat, and I think Michelle's a neat lady."
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That history gives Coburn's stark assessment a special sting. On immigration, he accuses Obama of acting like "an autocratic leader that's going to disregard what the Constitution says and make law anyway." He says changes in immigration policy require passage by Congress, not just the president's signature — a charge the White House disputes and on which legal experts disagree.
"Instead of having the rule of law handling in our country today, now we're starting to have the rule of rulers, and that's the total antithesis of what this country was founded on," Coburn says. "Here's how people think: Well, if the law doesn't apply to the president ... then why should it apply to me?"
USA TODAY
Obama to announce immigration plan Thursday
Coburn, who also served three terms in the House of Representatives, is retiring two years before his second Senate term is up as he battles a recurrence of cancer. He has been a leading deficit hawk, nicknamed "Dr. No" for his steadfast opposition to spending and his blunt-spoken manner.
Though he says both parties deserve some of the blame for Washington's dysfunction, he argues that the president has the ability to chart a different path. Solid Republican control of Congress in the wake of this month's midterm elections could make it easier to deal with an issue such as the structural problems associated with the deficit. Making the compromises necessary for that "requires divided government," he says.
"If I were in his office, I'd say, if you want to have a successful second term, dig down, swallow your pride, get what you can get, compromise on everything you can for the best interests of the country," he says. "Bring us back together."
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